You can run from the Better Business Bureau (BBB), but you can’t hide – even after changing your name. That’s the hard truth leaned recently by Vivint, formerly known as APX, when the BBB called them out in a bulletin issued by the BBB’s Pensacola, FL office.
Your BBB is warning consumers to be wary of salesmen who are going door-to-door offering home security systems “at no cost.” Vivint, Inc. has been the subject of numerous government actions and numerous complaints filed with BBB. Individuals in northwest Florida have alerted BBB that salesmen identifying themselves as being from Vivint, Inc. are offering “free” security systems if consumers pay for a monthly monitoring service.
Hard to Shake the Past
I had wondered how the BBB would treat the name change, since APX generated so many complaints and government actions over recent years. For some time prior to the name change the BBB rating for APX was not released, and I was curious if the APX complaints would follow the new name. Finally the rating reappeared, and clearly the bad news had followed the new name: C+.
Vivint, Inc., which also operates under the name APX Alarm Security Solutions, Inc., has had 1,441 complaints filed against it in the last three years, BBB’s standard reporting period. Additionally, the BBB Serving Utah, where Vivint/APX is headquartered, reports that at least four states have filed government action against Vivint/APX for a variety of violations including operating without a license and using false or misleading sales tactics.
Ongoing History of Complaints
The “seasonal” alarm sales companies – of which Vivint is one – are often referred to as “door knockers” for the method of going door to door. They employ representatives who sometimes push (or tear) the envelope in markets all across the US. Make no mistake, this is big business. But there is a dark side (and I’ve posted on these potentially pushy types of tactics before) - there are lots of complaints. The combination of high pressure sales tactics and little time to reconsider the purchase prior to installation has resulted in fines and lawsuits against these companies all across the US.
States Take Action
The state of Arkansas fined Vivint/APX $40,850 for over 40 violations in 2009. The state of South Carolina fined Vivint/APX $5,000 for violating South Carolina codes by having their license cancelled in another state (Louisiana). The South Carolina order references a $50,000 fine levied by Louisiana for utilizing unlicensed employees, violation of a Cease and Desist Order and engaging in false, misleading or deceptive acts or practices. Minnesota imposed a civil penalty of $25,000 against Vivint/APX for failure to comply with licensing requirements. And last year, the Oregon Department of Justice announced a $60,000 settlement with Vivint/APX for misleading and aggressive sales practices.
What You Should Do
Here’s what you should do when an alarm system salesman knocks on your door:
- Always ask for company ID – know who it is that’s trying to sell you something
- Ask about company alarm licensing, and individual licensing – many of these sale people are not licensed, or their companies aren’t
- Ask about safer cellular monitoring and interactive services – and what they really cost – since you want the best services, and because these companies generally charge a premium price for equipment and monthly fees
- Tell the salesperson you want time to think about it – if you are forced to buy on the spot, it’s probably not an offer that will stand up to scrutiny and research
- Do your due diligence – checking online reviews (and sites like BBB) can really pay off
FrontPoint has never sold door-to-door – and we don’t plan to sell that way in the future. The best home security customers are the people who are looking for a system in the first place, and with home security expanding to including to include remote video, interactive features, and even control of light, locks, and thermostats, it’s no wonder that demand is increasing. Our systems are safer, smarter, simpler, more affordable, and virtually impossible to defeat. That’s what makes FrontPoint the #1 choice in the US and Canada for interactive, wireless home alarm systems. And it also explains why we have the highest customer retention in the business. Just read the reviews!
Peter Rogers
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This company has been doing this type of dog and pony show for a long time. I had them when they were APX alarm and wish that I had never come across them. I wrote about my issue with them at http://www.imarkinteractive.com/general/rants-raves/apx-alarm-review/. Now that they are Vivint, I hope people don’t get confused. I am glad the BBB tracked them down and put out the warning.
Thanks, Grayson. Very helpful additional information, and I read your review with interest – along with the many comments I found there. I like your site! You are right about the BBB – they picked up on the name change from APX almost immediately. There was some conjecture that the new name (Vivint) was actually related to the negative reviews and reputation that APX had earned over the years, and not just in the attempt to re-brand as a home automation company.There are other door knocking alarm companies who have even worse reputations than Vivint – but Vivint is the largest, and the highest profile. It will be interesting to see how much longer the business model holds up, since so many jurisdictions are turning against it because complaints. Thanks again.
The sales agreement specifies the minimum term of three years. After having patiently waited and paid for three years (about $1440 total) I wrote the company to discontinue service. But I was told I had to wait for another full year ($480) before I was allowed to cancel the service because I must notify them BEFORE the original term is up, not one day late, otherwise the contract is automatically continued for 12 more month. Such condition was never communicated to me, and I am hopping mad.
Norman – thanks for your comment. We don’t agree that alarm companies should be so inflexible, but I know from over 20years in this business that most are. The main reason is that their customer cancellation rates, as high as they are already, would be even higher if these other companies were as flexible as FrontPoint is. Sorry you had that experience, but I know it would have been different working with us. We think the best way to get your customers to stay with you is by offering cutting edge technology, world-class service, and affordable pricing. Throw in the fact that you can move a FrontPoint system with you, and you can see why we have the lowest cancellation rate of any alarm company we can find.
me and my husband has vivint unaware of what they are like they have done nothing but lie and scam us we sign a contract and was told we had 30 days to cancell after having problems with there equipment 15 days later we called to canceel and they told us we only had three days now we are stuck in this contract and they won’t let us out
Sorry to hear that you’ve had a bad experience with any alarm company, since it tarnishes an entire industry. On the one hand, no company is all bad, and a large company (and Vivint is quite large) is bound to encounter some complaints. However, there is just too much bad news about door knocking in in general, and the fact that so many states and local jurisdictions have taken action against these companies simply cannot be ignored. The days of high-pressure sales may be coming to an end: if a consumer is forced to make a decision on the spot, that’s not a good thing, in our opinion.
Vivint is the third largest alarm company and still growing. They have over 500,000 customers so it is hard to imagine them not getting some complaints(unfortunately) concerning door to door sales. Just doing the math, if you have 4000 salesman knocking on 50 doors per day, 5 days a week over 3 months is over 12 million door knocks in one summer. Over 3 years they have had 1441 complaints mostly against sales. It sounds like a large number of complaints but it really is not for a company with a sales force that size. Furthermore, despite these complaints, Vivint continues to grow at an exponential rate and I will tell you why. They have the best product line on the market and can sell it at a good value to the average home owner. Vivint can offer such value because they do not franchise their name and sell cheap overpriced Fisher Price looking systems to thousands of dealers who then mark it up even more.
The bottom line is this, If you are trying to sell an inferior product, cheap knockoff, or a similar product at a much higher upfront price you will probably fail in a few years, Mr. Rogers.
-Vivint employee
Thanks, CZ, for your comment. It’s good to hear from an employee of the competition – and clearly you feel very strongly that Vivint is a reputable company. There are many ways that I can reply to your comment, and I could easily frame a lengthy rebuttal, but here are a few key points to consider: (1) Following your logic, ADT (which is more than eight times your size in the US) should have have eight times the complaints, but they don’t – they have roughly 2,500, only about 1,000 more than Vivint. And ADT is not considered a good service provider by the industry. So, I’m afraid the “we’re so big” argument does not hold logic. The good news is that you do have a better reputation than some other door knockers. Here is a little more math to chew on. FrontPoint has a total of five complaints over the past 36 months on the BBB site, a ratio of 1:280 compared to Vivint’s complaints. And our customer ratio is nowhere neat that disproportionate, which just reinforces the point about ADT. Size is no excuse: the problem is the business model and the company culture that allows the bad behavior to begin with. (2) Your customer attrition says it all, especially when you look at the people who fail to renew at the end of their initial contract term. Sadly, many of them did not really want or need the system, and find they do not use it – not surprising when door knocking is your sales methodology. FrontPoint has the lowest attrition in the alarm industry by a wide margin – for many reasons, including complete transparency and lack of pressure to buy. (3) As for value proposition, Vivint charges $68.99 for a level of service that FrontPoint provides for $49.99, so you are way more expensive there. Plus, your “teaser” basic system may look attractive, but your additional equipment (which most people need to create adequate protection) is overpriced. In other words, you charge more than FrontPoint for a “real” system, and for monthly services. (4) for equipment, we’ll take GE Security equipment any day: it’s UL listed, has a remarkable track record, and will continue to lead the industry as UTC (the owners of GE Security) continue to invest in R&D. As a global multi-billion dollar company, I like UTC’s odds of staying ahead of the competition.
Thanks for the opportunity to clear up some issues. I hope that anyone reading this is better prepared when they get that knock on the door. As I have stated before, any company that has to rely on pressure tactics to sell is not doing justice to the public – since more people are willing and able to do the research before making a buying decision. I’m afraid (for your sake) that it’s door knocking as a business model that may be in jeopardy. Good luck to you.
I normally don’t get into these type discussions, however I am a victim of the vivint lies and misleading sales tactics. I had that so call door knocker come to my house to my misfortune. I was in process of changing out my security provider (Brinks) to ADT for their security/DVR ability. The salesman for apx/vivint proceeded to tell me they would have all that available within a month.
Guess what it was free!!!!! What a lie. Now it’s been about 1 year now guess what! I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING BUT THE BASIC SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!! This unethical company rushed to my house removed my old system installed their basic system and locked me into the contract. Great ethics!!!
I spoke to a so called manager with the so called company and basically wasted my time. They like to act concerned but BULL they all are a bunch of scum!!
Now in order for me to get the system I need I will have to purchase and install myself.
I’m glad I read this blog. I will have my cancelation notice in before the 12 month period that this so called company has once again found the way to screw the customer.
I’m so mad right now and I promise I will cost them more than the 1400.00 it would cost to cancel my contract. And believe me this town of 100K people will listen. I know I’ve got 4 to 5 people go to ADT vs Scum Security Company or vivint in short. Looks to me I’m ahead already 5 people = $7000.00 and counting.
Regards,
Robert
Robert – sorry to hear about your bad experience. While no company is perfect, there is increasing concern in the alarm industry about the door knockers (like Vivint), and the effect theses companies are having on the perception of alarm companies in the general public. Some of these companies are worse than others, and while only a minority of the sales representatives create the problem, it’s pretty widely accepted that this is an aggressive method of selling that results in complaints – and lots of them. Then again, working with ADT is often no bed of roses either, especially for lots of former Brink’s customers who are regretting the sale of Brink’s/Broadview to ADT.
At any rate, good luck to you – and we would be happy if you and your colleagues considered us as an alternative to either Vivint or ADT.
Oh the horror. Vivint, and all alarm sales companies need to brought under charges for crimes against humanity. These complaints are just another one the examples of westerners never feeling fulfilled. Nothing is good enough is it, so everything must be perfect or it is like you’re life is not complete. Even if it is silly small problems with a product you chose to buy
Thomas – Thanks for your comment. You raise a good point – the issues related to door knockers and their practices are not the most important issues facing our society today. That being said, we are talking about the most reliable and trustworthy way for people to protect their homes and families – and for many individuals, these are important issues. And in a greater sense, accusations of fraud and violation of consumer protections laws are of some importance, especially for those of us who have dedicated our careers to working in this industry and playing by the rules. Thanks again for your comment.
So glad I found this site…Just got off the phone with a Vivint sales person trying to sell me their home monitoring system (equipment would be free- as long as we paid the monthly monitoring rate). We were dupped 4 years ago by another company that went door to door, got the equipment for free, paid the monthly fee until they went out of business, and never ever were able to figure out how to even use the stupid system. So, when I received this phone call today, I was very wary of the info the salesman was giving me. When I googled Vivent, I found a host websites offering complaints and found yours with all the information I needed to make my decision to not bother with them again. Thank you so much!!
Amy – my pleasure, and thanks for your great comment. It’s remarkable how big some of the door-knocker alarm companies got in a few years, but not surprising that there is a rising tide of resistance against them, based on the number of complaints and governmental actions (lawsuits, fines, etc.) that are more widespread today than ever. A big part of the problem with the door-knocker business model is that it relies so heavily on speed and pressure: you have to buy now, they install it right away, and there’s no time to consider options or do the research on the company. Also, many of these “customers” really did not want, need, or understand what they were getting: that helps explain why these companies have such high cancellation rates. The best alarm companies take a consultative approach, and actually want you to shop around. That’s our approach: we’re very proud of our excellent reviews, and we work hard to earn them. I certainly hope you’ll give FrontPoint a chance to earn your business! Thanks again.
Sorry I did not find this site until after I did business with Vivint. Upgraded my system and the salesman ask for a check for over $600 with the remainder of the upgrades to be billed in three monthly payments. In less than a week vivint was calling asking for thier money and was told to call the salesman. They were given instructions they did not have authorization to bill my credit card for anything except the difference in the check and what was owed but they billed my credit card for over $800 plus they have the check. I told them I was filing a complaint with BBB and will probably file a complant with the states attorny general for unauthorized charges to my card. Shanon at vivint who I spoke with did not care. Also spoke with Ryan at vivint and he was told the same thing about not being authorized to charge my card. As a note the upgrades do not work half the time. This thermostate I was suppost to be able to change over the internet has not wored at all, the camera’s are part time and I guess I will be installing another door lock as I have no faith in the one they installed. I have no faith in vivint and guess I will have to install additional equipment to monitor my home when I am not there. Wish I had read the reviews prior to doing business with them. Have not found one good review and not sure why a company does not understand customer relations.
Larry – Very sorry to hear your story. One of the best pieces of advice offered by the BBB, the FTC, and others is to make sure you check out any company before you buy. The door-knockers make it hard to do your homework: they really don’t want you to research them, since if they have to come back, the odds of getting the sale go way down. That explains the pressure tactics and the frequent bogus claims: it’s certainly not every door-knocker rep, or even company, but it happens enough to cause government fines and penalties (see the BBB site for individual companies’ records) and tons of complaints. As for Vivint, a common response I hear from their employees is, “We’re so big, of course we have complaints.” It should not be that way: size should be an advantage and make good customer relations easier, instead of creating an excuse for poor service. Thanks for your comment, and again – sorry about your experience.
I get a lot of “push back” for my posts on the door knockers – and most of it is from the employees of the door-knocking companies, not from their customers. That tells me a lot! Some of the comments I get I literally cannot reprint, sadly – remarkably defensive and laced with profanity.
Actually this company was recommended by Service Majic and I see they have a good rating on Angies List. I plan to complain to the NC states attorny general about my issues as I tried to resolve with Vivint and they did not care. I guess that is the too big to care attitude. I am not sure but I think there are some laws in this state with the over charge being more than $500. Thanks
Larry – Thanks very much for your comment. When you refer to “this company,” I think you mean FrontPoint, since we do work with ServiceMagic, and we are very highly rated on Angie’s List all across the US. If that is the case, then a double thanks for doing your homework on us, and passing on what’s easy to find on-line: lots of rave reviews on FrontPoint, and virtually no complaints. We work extremely hard to provide excellent service at a fair value, so it makes us happy when our efforts are recognized. As for your observation that Vivint may be “too big to care,” that is exactly the feeling many alarm customers have about Vivint, ADT, and a few others others. But bigger is not necessarily bad: Brink’s Home Security (later renamed Broadview) was the #2 company after ADT, and they were known for great service – that is, until ADT bought them, and things went downhill fast. Many of those former Brink’s customers have made the switch to FrontPoint, for more advanced technology and the kind of service that they (and you) deserve. Thanks again, and good luck in your quest for satisfaction.
Vivint / APX Alarm,
Well to say the least they are criminals the system will protect your house but not your pocketbook. I signed up with APX and lived in the house for 2 years after the system was installed. I signed a 3 year contract with them and had to move. when i moved they stated i needed to retain the service as i signed a three year deal. they would not take back the system they just wanted their money for the rest of the contract. Ok very mad but i did sign a 3 year contract. So after a very heated conversation with them i decided it was not worth the argument anymore and paid the balance for the remaining year roughly $600 and told them to cancel. now all most a year and a half later i get a bill at my new address saying they are going to send my outstanding balance to collections. the bill was for $200 (4 months) they state that since they did not receive a written cancellation notice they renewed my contract for 1 year. Ok it gets even better when i contacted them stating that i canceled this service they said ok so i would just need to pay for the remaining term of the 1 year extension ($600). they where unwilling to do anything about this. After threatening a law suit reporting them to BBB talking with almost all of their management staff they finally credited me for the one year extension but this took hours and action before they would do anything. They say they are a alarm company but all they do is steal!!!!!!!!
James – Very sorry to hear about your negative experience. APX/Vivint is not alone in some of these practices, but they do push the envelope where other companies are more flexible, and more consumer-oriented. That is one reason they have a higher cancellation rate than many of their competitors, and lots of complaints and bad reviews. As for hanging tough on the initial term, many alarm companies (FrontPoint included) lose money on the equipment, and make that back over time – that is where the initial contract term makes sense for the alarm company. Unlike Vivint, we offer a one, two, or three year initial term, and adjust our equipment discounts accordingly. It’s more flexible for you that way. As for the renewal, again Vivint is not unique in trying to hold you to your one year renewal, but after the initial term (and once they have made their investment back) it should not be so hard to cancel. Clearly you had to go to extreme lengths, but it sounds as if you prevailed. Well done!
By the way, one more great advantage of a FrontPoint system is that you can take it with you. Just take down the sensors, unplug the control unit, and tell us when you leave the old home and have moved into the new home. No charge, not contract extension, just good customer service. Easy set up is one of our most popular features.
Are all door knocking alarm companies bad? What do you think about B&D security monitored by Monitronics?
Dan – Thanks for your question. B&D is located in California, and ranks high with the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Their web site has very little information – when you click on “About Us” the site says they are working on it! For a company that has been around since 2003, not sure why that would be the case, but perhaps they are focused less on a web presence and more on the door-to-door approach. The fact that they are a Monitronics dealer is a generally a good thing, although I am aware of at least one large Monitronics dealer that was fired by another dealer program, so that alone is not enough of a quality indicator. The best test of the company is company reviews – and they are hard to find from customers. If you are talking to them, make sure there is no pressure in their approach – and shop the competition so you can compare offers.
So by reading your reviews/responses, no company is good enough, unless it’s your company?
Thanks for the help, that sends off red flags!
Jen – Thanks for your comment. Anyone reading my blog is of course free to draw their own conclusions. Of course, what I hope shoppers will do is a lot more research than just reading my words. In other words, people should do all the research they can BEFORE they make a decision, instead of feeling pressured to make a decision on the spot by a pushy door knocker. There is a reason we have such great reviews, and about 1% of the complaints of a company like Vivint. And trust me, that are not 100 times bigger than we are! We just take a different approach, one that includes transparency, consultation, and world-class service.
Door knockers know that if they leave without a sale, the odds of getting a signed contract drop dramatically. That’s why they are so pushy in the home: they don’t want people to shop and see the complaints. Of course, this approach just leads to more complaints, which is the door knockers’ dilemma. I would not do business that way, regardless of the “success” of the company – it gives this industry a bad name.
I had the APX alarm installed about 3 years ago and prior to APX changing their name to Vivint. Having completed my payment agreement I chose to cancel my service in July 2011. I called Vivint and stated my desire to cancel my service and after the typical ‘what can we give you to stay speech’ I was told they required a written letter on top of the phone call to cancel service. On the same day I called, I typed out a cancelation letter, signed and dated it and mailed it. They received the letter in July and I assumed our business was concluded. On November 18 2011, while reviewing my bank statement I was surprised to see a charge of $43.29 from Vivint! A further review of past statements revealed they never stopped billing me. Once again I called Vivint to see why I was still being charged for their service. Their representative informed me that I was supposed to call after I had sent the letter to tell them I hadn’t changed my mind in the interim of me writing and their receiving the letter. So, Vivint, want me to call, write a letter, and then call again, to cancel my service. I requested a refund of $43.29 x 4 months or $173.16 for the over billed amount. I was then told if I would not be refunded and that I could seek legal counsel if I wished. I was floored for lack of a better term. This was the first time I have ever felt completely ripped off by a company.
Erik – thanks so much for your detailed comment, and I’m sorry to hear of your unfortunate interactions with APX/Vivint. From the many complaints you can find on-line (at the BBB and elsewhere), you are not alone in your experience. It seems that as most alarm companies get larger, their size becomes more of an obstacle or an excuse than an advantage in meeting their customers’ expectations. Brink’s was a wonderful exception: they were large, but treated their customers very well. Too bad ADT absorbed them…
The sad truth is that many homeowners feel cheated and taken advantage of by alarm companies – and that fact may help explain why only about one in five US homes has a monitored alarm system today. The alarm industry in general does not have a great reputation, and your account gives a great example of why. Happily there are some alarm companies that are committed to doing business the right way, and staying on the right side of customer service as they grow – companies like FrontPoint. We know we are not perfect, but we have worked hard to develop the best on-line reputation of any nationwide alarm company. That takes a lot of work, but it’s worth it. Thanks again, and our condolences.
04/27/12 at 7.pm One by the name of AlbertoTel#3474741081fromNY was trasferto me by his so call Company VIVINT tel#12532468514.He was so charming &sweet oabout his VIVINT security system the bargain he give was too good to be true he want to give me every thing free then he said he need my info I said OK he then ask me for my date of birth I said no way i dont know u he said u dont believed in me or my company i told him i have to find out what your company all about he didnt answer for a few second may be he was freeze after I ASK R u there he keep pressureing me for my info he said if i dont do it now i will loose my chance It’s a 1time thing i was selected in my neighbourhood I said good for those people may be another time,right away I when and look it up I was shock of that scam,thiefing VIVINT COMPANY i couldnt belived i would have been in HELL alive thank god. I am so sorry for every one who got rob by those 2 thieves make GOD laught ‘they r bigger thieves I hope justice will serve one day they will sorry showing up at the wrong person house.after everything that is publish about them& still calling people to robe them SHAME ON YOU.
Sandy – Sounds like you got away without making a bad decision, but what you experienced seems to follow a pattern that is all too familiar. In fact, there are so many complaints about these door knocker companies across the US that some of them have been fined by states for deceptive sales practices and even prevented from working in certain jurisdictions. The companies say (of course) that it’s only a few bad apples: the fact is, these sales representatives are trained and compensated to push hard for the sale, and it has to be on the first visit. They know that if you have time to do your homework and read the reviews, the odds of you signing up are much lower, so that explains the urgency. Thanks for your comment.
To Vivint Home Security customers, if you do an engine search, you will learn that Vivint of Utah has been “red flagged” by the B.B.B. in Utah, due to well OVER 1,000 various complaints filed against them since 2009, and most complaints were filed by various State authorities! Need I say more?
Steve – Thanks for your post. Clearly there are some flaws in the door knocking alarm sales model, as the breadth and scope of the complaints against this company (and others) is way out of proportion to most alarm companies. Part of the problem is that the sales reps are paid very high commissions, and that creates temptation. We also know too much about the culture from previous employees to believe that it’s just a few bad apples: let’s face it, these companies do not punish overly aggressive sales tactics to a sufficient degree. If they did, there would not be this number of complaints! Thanks again.
Hello, Peter. Tonight I was searching the web and came across your site, “Home alarm sales – Better Business Bureau issues warning on…” (www.frontpointblog.com). I started reading your blog out of curiosity. I found one of your comments interesting, and I quote
“FrontPoint has never sold door-to-door and we don’t plan to sell that way in the future,” end quote. I just happen to live in a community that has a non-door to door solicitation policy (the sign is posted at the entrance of our community). When I came home tonight (true story), I found a flyer that someone had left at my front door. To my surprise, especially after having read your blog, the flyer is from FrontPoint Security. I certainly don’t have an “ax to grind” with you or FrontPoint. However, since you are a Security Expert with over 20 years experience, and you are in management with FrontPoint Security, I just thought that you would like to know that someone from your organization is going door to door. The person either wasn’t informed by FrontPoint Security that he wasn’t supposed to be “door knocking” and selling door to door, or he was simply violating company policy. Either case, one thing for sure is that he ignored our community’s non-solicitation policy. Yep, that someone is, “Rep ID: 9811839, and I have his three page flyer, titled, “Home Security Finally, Made Better. FrontPoint Security is 100% wireless” to prove it. Just thought you would want to know what one of your “reps” is doing in the field.
Ken – Thanks very much for your thoughtful and detailed comment. Using the information from your informative post, I was able to pinpoint where the problem originated – and that is, a representative from an affiliated company that markets several products and services (including ours), and who is using the method you describe without our permission or authorization. We are extremely clear to all our affiliates and partners that door-to-door is something FrontPoint has steered clear of, since it has spawned so many complaints about the alarm industry – even when there is no direct interaction (as in this situation). I strongly suspect that the person in question “stretched” the rules: even though they may not have been making in-home presentations, door-to-door is still door-to-door, and your community makes it clear that the practice is not allowed. We have dealt with this situation, and we are taking steps to tighten up our procedures for working through affiliated companies: please accept our apologies, and again, thanks for your comment. We worked hard to earn the excellent reputation we have, and we are not about to risk that through a third party company breaking the rules.
If everyone reading this can’t see it’s a big sales tactic. Your blind. Every alarm company makes you sign a contract. Unless you pay the 700 to a 1000 minimum it cost for equipment and installion. 95 percent of the BBB complaints are from the sales end of any door to door company. Read your contracts pay your bills. Simple. Now I’m not saying companies dont make mistakes or there customer service people don’t get on power trips every now and then. But on the whole most door to door companies will offer great service. And take great car of there customers. Try to find a company that keeps there contracts in house your are more valuable to them. If you live in Florida Apt is a great smaller company that will take great care of you.
Ryan – There are many aspects of your email to which I could take serious exception – but I do want to thank you for your comment. The fact is that the thousands of complaints racked up by the door-knocking alarm companies indicate some real problems. Vivint/APX is just one of these companies – and happens to be the largest, although not the worst. Yes, alarm companies use a subscriber monitoring contract (even FrontPoint does that) – but the real purpose of the contract should be to explain everyone’s rights and obligations, and not as a weapon to hold a consumer to a purchase that the consumer perhaps did not need, want, or completely understand. And that is where the problems arise, with pressure sales tactics and outright fraud, especially when these companies are knocking on doors. There is just too much evidence of wrongdoing, as indicated by the long list of government actions (fines, lawsuits, etc.). But again, thanks for your comment.
I agree wholeheartedly with Ryan regarding the fact that this whole blog is a very cleverly masked sales tactic. Not everyone will see through this but as someone in the sales field, it is to me, glaringly obvious. Indeed I will be somewhat surprised if this reply is included in the blog or not.
I have been in sales for over 30 years and one thing from my early days has stuck firmly with me and that is that any company worth its salt will never, ever denigrate the work of another company. This blog of yours does nothing but. It is one thing to advise people to do their own research but that is not what you are doing here Mr Rogers.
It is also one thing to point people in the right direction but to so mislead the public by making out that door to door salespeople are going to automatically be people to distrust is a tactic which is beneath even the most desperate and cynical salesman.
ADT is the largest security company there is and has scores, if not hundreds, of satelite companies or franchises, working with honesty and integrity under the ADT banner. These companies do use either employees or contractors to help bring in business and one method of doing so is to do it the old fashioned way and go door to door, meeting prospective customers and in many cases, converting them to actual customers. Yes, I am one of the thousands of honest, hard working people who does just that and I have never once lied to, or in any way misled a home or business owner in order to secure a contract. In fact, as I write, I have seven unsigned contracts in peoples homes giving them the opportunity to read them from front to back and to contact me either with questions or to have me back to collect the signed paperwork. On meeting a prospective customer on their doorstep and in order to explain fully what I am attempting to do, I mention three main things — length of contract, what happens if a contract is broken and all prices for activation and monitoring. At no time do I ever tell the homeowner that the equipment is free. Instead I tell them that the monthly investment covers both monitoring and equipment cost recovery. Maybe I have one advantage however and that is that I have been broken into 4 times over the years and so I know first hand how devastating it is to be the victim of this, type of crime. I therefore really do care about safeguarding the property of the customer and beating the scum who perpetrate such attacks on peoples lives.
You infer that just because a company doesn’t use door to door sales methods, that company is somehow more trustworthy that those who do. What nonsense. The small independant contractors like me are quite simply human beings attempting to pay our bills like anyone else and I surely cannot afford the high cost of advertising in the variously accepted ways. I therefore have no option but to get out there the old fashioned way and hope that people will trust me and allow me to be of help to them.
People like you stoop to new depths when you attempt to negatively influence the minds of my prospective customers and to potentially, in so doing, put me out of business just so that you can boast that your methods are more honest than mine. In conclusion Mr Rogers, I would ask that you concentrate on honesty and integrity in the way in which you advise the public on what and what not to do regarding who and who not to trust when considering home security. I would put my honesty and integrity face to face with yours any day and sleep very well that night.
Colin – Thanks for your comment. It is, frankly, rare that someone puts as much thought and effort into constructing a blog comment as you did, and I compliment you. I also compliment you on the professional and completely above-board approach that you describe in presenting your products and services to potential customers. You could work at FrontPoint! But I am afraid you mistake me. If you read through the many blog entries I have posted on door-to-door sales, you will see that I do not say that all and any door-knocking companies are bad, or that all door-knocking salespeople are bad: it’s simply a fact (demonstrated by the preponderance of evidence from fines, lawsuits, government actions, and warnings all over the country) that there are increasing numbers of “door knockers” using fraudulent and deceptive sales practices, along with high-pressure sales tactics, to a degree never before seen in this industry. It’s bad enough that our industry already has a checkered reputation: the “bad” door-knockers are simply making it worse, when even the FTC feels obliged to step in and issue a blanket warning on door-to-door alarm sales. Frankly, that hurts all of us. The only aspect of the alarm industry that is more or less in the clear is the monitoring component, because most central stations are good – especially if UL listed. But when it comes to marketing, sales, installation, service, and customer support, the alarm industry is not highly regarded. Even billing and collections are areas of significant consumer dissatisfaction. In my opinion, ADT is one of the worst alarm service providers – and just happens to be the largest and the one that most people have heard of. Happily, alarm shoppers are getting smarter, and are examining their options, such as using review sites and other tools to compare and shop competitively. That will help the good companies, and those companies who offer poor service (or do not sufficiently control their sales people) will become increasingly evident and, I hope, suffer. I grew up in the “traditional” alarm business, which is based largely on shoe leather for sales, and have known some of the best security consultants in the business: professional, honest, and qualified. They are still out there, for sure. The problem is that they are not the only ones selling, and that it’s getting worse instead of better. I don’t think of my blog as a cleverly masked sales tactic. I don’t even think of it as a tactic, or being masked at all – it is just one man’s informed opinion. That being said, I happen to be relatively well informed on the alarm industry, having been involved for over 20 years (and I respect your thirty years in sales). And I also know that it is possible to do this right: not half right, or mostly right, but 99% right, if you commit to complete transparency and honesty in sales and marketing, and offer advanced technology, world-class service, and affordable prices. As online reviews show, there are alarm companies doing just that, and I believe FrontPoint is one of them. The sad truth is there are not more of them. Thanks again – and I do hope you are somewhat surprised to see this response to your comment.
Sure wish I would have done my research! Vivint came to my home tonight stating they were looking for a couple of homes to market their product in exchange for the security system (a $2000 value). The very nice rep called the company which approved us as a market home. I was so surprised when he said the installers had to come tonight for the install. They were here within 15 minutes even though I had asked for an install tomorrow due to having to put my child to bed. They installed the entire system so quick and were all so professional and nice and the system seems really nice. I was so diappointed when I read all the BBB complaints and the Government Actions and then I found your blog. They did inform me that I had three days to change my mind. Do I still have three days even though the system is installed already? I am in California and the California Government Action did mention the installs are completed before the three day cool off period so am I stuck? How should I proceed?
Lou – Sorry that you were subjected to the classic door knocker sales tactic. Sounds like a text book version of what these companies say: they are only looking for a couple of homes (particularly attractive homes, of course) for marketing purposes. Hundreds of thousands of people have fallen for this same spiel, so don’t feel like you’re alone, by any means. And they are persuasive, polite, and most of all, driven. That’s why the installer shows up right away. They know that as more time passes after the sale, you have more time to change your mind – or do that important homework. But you DO have three days to change your mind, even if the system has been installed: so, if that is your choice, you may want to act IMMEDIATELY to protect yourself. I cannot tell you to do that – but I can tell you what your rights are.
Hi, so um… I have vivint. They didn’t knock on my door, I’d done some research [didn't find frontpoint because Google doesn't love you, and MORE FRIGHTENINGLY, when I used alarm.com to see who offered service in my area you didn't come up (Oddly, you do now, along with other newcomer to my results SafeLife, it used to be just CPI and Vivint)] and called them directly as they were offering $100 off install at the time.
I’m still within my ROR (got it extended due to issues with my motion sensor detecting cats and being told a glassbreak would have too many false alarms due to a dog, who really only barks when he thinks there’s an intruder anyway) and so I was looking into other options, mainly to save money. I tried one very local company that sold their own equipment and so monthly costs were lower, but then I found that to have phone-arming I’d have to pay another $7.50/mo _per type of device_, so while with FP it goes from $35 to $43/mo (still ridiculous in my opinion, are you paying a licensing fee to alarm.com?), it would go up $15/mo if I wanted to use a phone AND my laptop to arm. And according to the guy, another fee if I want to use a desktop, not sure how that works at all. Besides, after the sales of all of their equipment and the monthly fee, it amortized out to MORE than I’m paying with Vivint.
So, looong story short: Vivint is reasonable compared to buying outright through said local company, apparently. And, with all the added fees from other companies to get what I want, I’m actually saving money even if I decided at the end of the 42 month period (3.5 years) to leave them, I might be saving money anyway as I could, then, purchase fancier equipment as the other companies finally catch up.
I hear, though, that service calls after 120 days are $45/each, but that can be waived, yada yada.
As an aside: I have no idea what they charge if you do cancel and they have to come take the stuff out. Contract says there’s some kinda fee.
Thanks, Tobias. I hope your experience is a good one. And the good news is that you have a system, which is clearly better than not having one! Not sure why you were not able to find us originally, as we would have liked to help you, and could have saved you some money. For instance, the full service “Ultimate” level of monitoring costs only $49.99 from FrontPoint, including intrusion, fire and environmental, free mobile apps, notifications and remote control, video, and home automation for lights, locks and thermostats. It’s the best value in the alarm industry. Vivint charges $68.99 for the same level of service… it won’t take long for that to be a much more expensive arrangement.
I’m not surprised that the local company was heaping on the fees for the additional services: there are only a few national companies who really “get it” when it comes to offering a comprehensive service level that does it all. Companies like FrontPoint! Good luck to you, and thanks again.
We recently went through the exact same problems as the ones described in this forum. This company cam knocking on our door one day, told us that we could sign up for this service for 18 months and asked us what day we would like to have the $50 withdrawn from our account. Well, they started taking the money out early, when we went to the bank to straighten it out they started taking it out in lesser amounts early so that they could get around the block. Then they told us they’d repay us the fees that accrued because they caused overdrafts in our account by taking the money out before the debit date. Then they told us they’d give us three months free for the hassel but never did. We were tired of the lies and wanted to opt out of the contract since they’d breached it in the first place. Next thing we knew, they claimed that our contract was for 3 years, then later they said 5 and they wanted 1700 to close the account.When we refused they claimed they’d close the account but they didnt they just switched it over to the homeowners name and started sending her bills and credit threats. I dont want to go too deep into detail here but I do want to make this point. This is malicious and abusive behavior on the part of the company. Is this something that we as customers can come together to put an end to? Not necessarily put the company out of business but stop the abuse and get justice for everyone who’s been suckered into this so far- those who paid the early cancellation fee, those who’s contract have been breached by the company but can’t get out of it still? We can’t accept this kind of abuse by a company who’s obviously had bad business practices since their existance which is why they’ve changed their name but not their abusive practices.
Sept – Wow, thanks for your very detailed response to the blog. I hear these stories more and more, which is not that surprising when one considers how pervasive these door knocking alarm companies have become. But I am sorry that you have had this service nightmare, and I hope you have reported your experience to your local Better Business Bureau office, and to the other folks who could help you (local TV stations, local papers, your State Attorney General, etc.). It happens that several of these companies have had to pay large fines to settle with a number of states for violating licensing laws, committing deceptive and fraudulent business practices, and other issues. It’s not every door knocker company, and it’s not every person knocking on doors, but clearly there appears to be a culture in their business model that may encourage making the sale at any cost, and then trying to hold an unwilling customer to a contract that may not have been sufficiently explained. What you describe, which sounds like a fast-talking salesperson followed by a major run-around, should not go unreported. And by reporting these issues o consumer protection agencies, you may succeed in getting the relief you want and probably deserve. Thanks again, and good luck.
You are most welcome, Alan. It’s not often I find something you have not already known about! We think any service that increases home security and peace of mind is a good thing.
I have been taken by this sorry company too. My husband and I were approached by “APX” three years ago via “door knocker”. we had money at the time and listened to their sales pitch. We asked if we could think about it and was told that they need to do this today because they wouldn’t be in our area for another month. My husband said, then tell me how much it would cost to simply pay the whole contract in full that day. They called the “manager” and we were told that the whole pay off for installation and three years of service would be $1647.00. we paid in two payments on my husbands visa, one payment for the install and one payment for the contract as agreed. i asked the sales person to write on the contract that it was paid in full. she sneakily wrote “pay contract and activation in full”. now it is in collection due to “non payment”. my husband prides himself on paying his bills and his credit score is or was in the 800′s. this is devistating to him! We asked, “why would I pay that amount of money if I had even a clue that it wasn’t paying the contract in full”? they couldn’t answer that. I am now searching for an attorney in the hopes that i can recoop at least my husbands good credit standing. but if we can shut this company down, that would be even more satisfying!!
Bonita – This is a sad story, and I am sorry to hear it. As I have often repeated, it’s not all the door knocker companies who conduct themselves in this manner, and only a very small percentage of the sales reps in the field. The problem, as I see it, is that there is too much money in commissions, and not enough supervision at the managerial level – a bad combination. the result is that you get “rogue” sales people who use very aggressive sales tactics, and in some cases may resort to fraud and deceit. That is why there are so many complaints, lawsuits, and bad reviews – and why there are so many governmental actions taken against door knockers in the forms of fines, injunctions, and prohibitions from operating in some jurisdictions. Many alarm company operators agree: it’s not good for our industry, since we are all painted with the same brush.
You can definitely see your expertise within the work you write. The sector hopes for even more passionate writers like you who aren’t afraid to say how they believe. At all times follow your heart.
Thanks – glad you like the posts.
We are a bunch of volunteers and opening a new scheme in our community. Your website provided us with valuable information to work on. You’ve done an impressive activity and our whole community will probably be thankful to you.
You are most welcome – and good for you! We need more willing volunteers at the community level.
Vivint salespeople have been harassing our neighbors for about a week now – I couldn’t believe the emails we rec’d from our neighbors (we have a small neighborhood watch group) until we experienced it firsthand today.
This afternoon, there was a pounding on our door that wouldn’t stop and when we answered, a Vivint sales guy started with his spiel – we told him to leave and informed him that he was trespassing. If anything it encouraged him to become more aggressive. Again , we told him to leave and he kept talking and inching his way toward us. Finally, when we took a photo of him and rang 911, he departed. We found out later that he went to another neighbor and said he was from the City! Yup, we reported him to the police, and will file with the BBB and our State’s Attorney General. He has threatened other neighbors and our biggest concern is for the elderly and vulnerable.
This marks the first time we’ve been subjected to abuse by a company that we never have and never will do business with.
Scott – Thanks so much for sharing your experience. Nothing is more powerful than real stories from the trenches, and yours is a classic account of a door knocker encounter. It’s easy to see why there have been so many complaints, fines, lawsuits, consumer protection cases, and other remedial actions about these companies: Vivint just happens to be the largest of them, although others have even worse records. The standard response from the door knocker companies on these complaints is twofold: (1) it’s only a few bad apples that are this aggressive, and (2) this problem has already been recognized and fixed. Sadly these responses simply don’t get it done. In the first place, it’s not just a few bad apples: it’s the culture of these companies to teach aggressive sales tactics. And the irony is that they more aggressive they are, the harder they make it for themselves, because the complaints just keep mounting up. In the second, it’s clear that the problem is ongoing, and has not been solved – as your story demonstrates. Stopping these negative behaviors would require a fundamental change to the door knocking business model: not likely, as long as these companies continue to sell so many systems. How long the homeowners keep the services before canceling them is another story…
One factor contributing significantly to the situation is the commissions made by these young people (in many cases they are college students): the potential earnings for a summer is so high that it encourages the behaviors. Because the managers get an “override” on the sales of their teams, they are apt to turn a blind or eye, or worse, even encourage aggressive or fraudulent sales tactics. But it’s also the culture of the companies: they know that the sale has to be made on that first approach to the homeowner. Once the homeowner has a chance to research the company, read the complaints, compare offers, and really understand what they are signing up for, the odds of the sale go down drastically. That’s why these kids hate to come back – they know you’ll change your mind, so they push really hard for the sale on that first visit.
The alarm industry is not happy with these door knocking companies, for reasons that are becoming increasingly obvious. Not only do the door knockers make the alarm industry look bad with aggressive (and often deceptive) tactics – they also have very high cancellation rates compared to other alarm business models, which hurts the overall perception of monitored home security. Suffice to say if you want to retain alarm customers, they should need, want, and understand what they are signing up for in the first place. When the Better Business Bureau, the Federal Trade Commission, and law enforcement agencies across the US are issuing warnings on these companies and the way they do business, clearly there is a big problem.
Thanks again for sharing your experience. Hopefully the word will continue to get out, and more people will just close their doors to these hucksters – as hard as that may be!